[05:02:58-PM] MC_Fyron: Welcome Kwok! How are you tonight? [05:03:18-PM] CaptainKwok: I am well. I also sent on a broadcast message too on se.net. [05:04:02-PM] MC_Fyron: So, what can you tell us about ship models in Starfury? [05:04:05-PM] CaptainKwok: I'm ready for questions, so fire away - pun intended. [05:04:35-PM] CaptainKwok: Well, ships in Star Fury are a bit more complicated than those in SE4. They are DirectX files (.x), and are rendered real time. [05:04:58-PM] Hugh_Manatee: What was the program used to make the originals? [05:05:25-PM] CaptainKwok: The graphic guys used 3d Studio Max and converted them .x files using conv3ds.exe... [05:05:38-PM] MC_Fyron: I thought they used Lightwave? [05:06:07-PM] CaptainKwok: I think you can actually download 3d Studio Max from discreet, but I think it only works for two weeks and then requires you to pay. It is very, very, expensive software. [05:06:15-PM] CaptainKwok: No, they used Studio Max. [05:06:37-PM] MC_Fyron: That would be Gmax, which is an introductory program to 3d Studio Max [05:07:37-PM] MC_Fyron: So do we have another question for Mr. Kwok? [05:08:14-PM] Taz: Any freeware programs capable of handling Direct-X graphics? [05:08:16-PM] MC_Fyron: Happens to the best of them. [05:08:18-PM] geoschmo: bye [05:08:41-PM] CaptainKwok: anim8tor I believe works ok and can export to .3ds and then converted to .x [05:08:50-PM] Hugh_Manatee: I know of three [05:09:05-PM] Taz: (y) [05:09:08-PM] Hugh_Manatee: Anim8tor, Wings 3d and Amapi [05:09:29-PM] CaptainKwok: There is MeshX - shareware for 20 days I think that can edit .x files directly, but is hard to work with. [05:09:42-PM] ekolis: Wings 3D can export to .x? Where's the plugin? [05:10:14-PM] Hugh_Manatee: Ok I was told wings could do that, but I haven't tried it myself [05:11:00-PM] CaptainKwok: It can do .3ds though...that is wings3d [05:11:21-PM] MC_Fyron: So Mr. Kwok, what can you tell us about the nature of the Starfury rendering system? Any particulars on the types of models that are best for it? [05:12:27-PM] CaptainKwok: Well, you want to keep the polygon counts less than a 1000 for most ships...starbases are usually more. [05:12:56-PM] CaptainKwok: Cylinders and Spheres are the worst polygon offenders and to look smooth require lots of polys. [05:13:27-PM] Hugh_Manatee: Hmmm, that could be a problem for star trek ships [05:13:38-PM] MC_Fyron: Any tips on how to get around that and have round shapes with fewer polygons? [05:14:34-PM] CaptainKwok: The best option is to 'optimize vertices' or things like that. The program will try and reduce the total count by combining polys where it can. [05:15:16-PM] Hugh_Manatee: any texture advice? [05:15:42-PM] Hugh_Manatee: will our bump maps be bumpy in the game? [05:17:10-PM] CaptainKwok: I'm not sure, haven't tried that. [05:17:48-PM] CaptainKwok: The textures are on 256x256 .bmp files... [05:19:28-PM] MC_Fyron: Do we have another question? [05:20:12-PM] ekolis: I'll add to the modeller discussion by saying that K-3D supports exporting to .X [05:20:16-PM] CaptainKwok: I can answer questions on some of the data file portions too. [05:20:55-PM] Hugh_Manatee: Any editable AI? [05:21:38-PM] CaptainKwok: Not in the traditional se4 sense for AI - but I moreso meant ship stuffs in the data files... [05:22:15-PM] CaptainKwok: Things to keep in mind when you are making your models are the locations that you want as firing points and engines. [05:22:31-PM] ekolis: so THAT's who E3 is! [05:23:01-PM] CaptainKwok: Engines points can be assigned a glow to simulate the thrust... [05:23:02-PM] Taz: Or his Bot! [05:23:02-PM] Hugh_Manatee: What other data is associated with the ships then, besides the texture? and I was going to ask about engine flares and weapons. [05:23:02-PM] * E3 is E3, also known as Denolas, Xuil, Elaor, Firon, and whenever he can steal the name, Fyron. [05:23:17-PM] CaptainKwok: Ships need several different size portrait images... [05:24:11-PM] CaptainKwok: This includes a 102x80 image for the shield layout portrait... [05:24:42-PM] CaptainKwok: A 540x780 for an overhead desatured image of the ship. [05:24:55-PM] CaptainKwok: Woops, shield layout should be 80x102... [05:25:42-PM] CaptainKwok: ...and a profile portrait (like that in se4) of 350x210. [05:26:24-PM] MC_Fyron: Thats a lot of images! [05:26:38-PM] Hugh_Manatee: How will we assign the engine glow and weapon points? from in Starfury or some other way? [05:27:25-PM] CaptainKwok: It's in the star fury data files. One file corresponds to special points on your ship, like firing points and engine points, scale, rotation, etc... [05:27:59-PM] Taz: How many points can be defined per ship Max? [05:28:22-PM] CaptainKwok: Star Fury ship models by default face up (like mini portraits in se4)... [05:28:44-PM] CaptainKwok: I'm not sure of the hard limits for that Taz, but probably quite a few... [05:29:03-PM] Hugh_Manatee: what are the sizes we can produce? I know we can only controll sertain sizes, but can we make our own NPC ships? [05:29:08-PM] CaptainKwok: The firing points should correspond to hull locations that have weapon slots. [05:29:18-PM] CaptainKwok: Make any size you want. [05:29:42-PM] CaptainKwok: There is no standard sizes per se... [05:29:51-PM] Hugh_Manatee: Can we make planets and stellar events? [05:30:00-PM] CaptainKwok: Planets, stars, storms, yes. [05:30:15-PM] Taz: Asteroid fields? [05:30:21-PM] CaptainKwok: Yes. [05:30:33-PM] CaptainKwok: Any system object. [05:30:37-PM] Hugh_Manatee: 8-O [05:30:38-PM] Hugh_Manatee: (argh) [05:30:38-PM] Hugh_Manatee: *drools* [05:32:10-PM] CaptainKwok: Overall, I'd say the data files are a bit more difficult to mod than SE4, but they do give you a lot more control overall. [05:32:11-PM] Taz: How many of the stock races made it? [05:32:16-PM] CaptainKwok: A few. [05:32:34-PM] CaptainKwok: Let's try to stick on ships though. [05:32:48-PM] MC_Fyron: Yes, ships are good. [05:33:12-PM] Taz: How low a graphics card will run this? [05:33:40-PM] MC_Fyron: That is not really a ship related question. ;) [05:33:40-PM] Taz: GeForce 2 OK? [05:34:06-PM] Hugh_Manatee: By sizes I meant classes(escort, cruiser, dreadnought), what classes can we build, and will we have to build a whole race's worth or just the ones we want to controll or fight against. [05:34:14-PM] CaptainKwok: I did run it with a 16Mb card, but I recommend a bit higher as the requirements suggest ~32Mb + [05:35:13-PM] MC_Fyron: That sort of stuff is not necessarily finalized at this point. [05:35:21-PM] CaptainKwok: True. [05:35:28-PM] Hugh_Manatee: I see [05:35:38-PM] MC_Fyron: So answering it would violate the NDA. [05:35:58-PM] MC_Fyron: So, any more questions on ship models? [05:36:24-PM] Hugh_Manatee: let me think....... [05:38:21-PM] Hugh_Manatee: any shot we can get our hands on one of the original ship models to see how it was done? like could we open the .X file and play with it? [05:38:43-PM] CaptainKwok: Ship tip - keep in mind that ships have slots were you put components. So when you make your models, keep in mind that you'll need to set up these slots for your ship in the data files and some slots can only be used for shields, some for armor, and stuff like that. [05:39:02-PM] CaptainKwok: Yes Hugh, but when the demo or game is released. [05:39:09-PM] CaptainKwok: :P [05:39:15-PM] MC_Fyron: What is a good method for reducing polygon counts? If you have a model with, say, 20000 polygons, what is the easiest and best way to get it down to a more reasonable number, while still maintaining quality? [05:39:19-PM] ekolis: I have a question but it probably wouldn't help anyone who doesn't have a copy of Starfury to test it out on... :p [05:39:28-PM] Hugh_Manatee: X-P [05:39:33-PM] CaptainKwok: The models with the game are nicely done and quite professional. [05:40:00-PM] MC_Fyron: That is good, but does not answer my question. ;) [05:40:10-PM] CaptainKwok: Most programs have an option to reduce the number of polygons automatically for you as an option. [05:40:25-PM] MC_Fyron: But do they work well in your experience? [05:40:29-PM] CaptainKwok: They do a pretty good job. [05:40:43-PM] CaptainKwok: Spheres suffer the most during reducing though. [05:40:47-PM] E3: (unrelated queation. Alpha-Beta... then is it Gamma-Delta or Delta-Gamma?) [05:41:13-PM] CaptainKwok: alpha-beta-gamma-delta [05:41:19-PM] CaptainKwok: GD [05:41:20-PM] CaptainKwok: AB [05:41:22-PM] E3: thankee Kwokie [05:41:39-PM] CaptainKwok: For star trek quadrants... [05:41:51-PM] MC_Fyron: Search on Google for "Greek Alphabet" [05:42:28-PM] MC_Fyron: Have you made any custom models Kwok? [05:42:39-PM] CaptainKwok: Hugh, btw, you do not build ships - but you may buy them. [05:42:55-PM] CaptainKwok: I have made models, but they were lost in the HD crash. I haven't made any since though. [05:43:01-PM] MC_Fyron: Ed, you can ask your question... [05:43:09-PM] ekolis: All right... [05:43:17-PM] ekolis: it probably won't help anyone though... [05:43:18-PM] MC_Fyron: How much time do you recall them taking to make? [05:43:49-PM] CaptainKwok: It depends, the same time as making a ship for regular se4 plus a little debugging to make sure they look proper. [05:44:18-PM] ekolis: what kinds of things do you have to do with the X file to avoid getting errors - no holes? I keep getting errors trying to load even a simple cube :( [05:44:50-PM] CaptainKwok: pm me with your specific errors... [05:44:52-PM] MC_Fyron: Was it any more difficult than making ships for SE4? [05:45:11-PM] CaptainKwok: You need to make a lot more for se4, while in Star Fury you can make one if you wanted... [05:45:21-PM] CaptainKwok: It focuses on the individual ship. [05:45:37-PM] MC_Fyron: Well, I meant as compared to making a single model for SE4. [05:46:29-PM] CaptainKwok: It's the same really. You still needed to make a 3d model for se4, it's just that in star fury you're using the actual model and not just a picture of it. [05:46:51-PM] MC_Fyron: Ok. Can Doga models be converted to .x format and work in SF? [05:46:53-PM] Hugh_Manatee: Oh I didn't mean building them in the game I meant building the models in the3D software stuff, I meant will we have to make a whole races worth of ship models or just the models we need. Like will we have to make all the existing classes just to have one specific class in the game or can we just make that one class and put it in there. [05:47:26-PM] CaptainKwok: Yes, Atrocities and I have stuck Doga models in the game. [05:47:27-PM] MC_Fyron: Hugh, if you just want to add one ship to the game, you only have to make one model. [05:47:49-PM] MC_Fyron: That is good news. SF might have a few dozen custom shipsets within a week of release. :D [05:48:08-PM] MC_Fyron: erm... ships... [05:48:14-PM] MC_Fyron: Guess that would be a few gross of ships ;) [05:48:18-PM] CaptainKwok: Doga models do need a middle man program though to reduce the number of polys - they can be very large. [05:48:36-PM] MC_Fyron: What program(s) work well for that specific purpose? [05:48:58-PM] CaptainKwok: I had used MeshX before. [05:49:14-PM] CaptainKwok: I will continue to find better programs for editing the files though. [05:51:06-PM] MC_Fyron: Any further questions? [05:51:43-PM] Taz: how large are these graphic files - for download purpose... [05:51:52-PM] E3: yes.... can I go afk to potty? [05:52:00-PM] MC_Fyron: E3, certainly not. [05:52:06-PM] E3: oh... ok [05:52:26-PM] CaptainKwok: For a ship and it's data file parts, less than a se4 shipset. [05:52:34-PM] Taz: Great! [05:53:00-PM] MC_Fyron: But keep in mind that is a single ship. [05:53:26-PM] Hugh_Manatee: any non combat classes or unit classes that we can customize?(transports and fighters and such) [05:53:34-PM] CaptainKwok: All. [05:53:48-PM] MC_Fyron: This is a MM product. Everything can be customized. ;) [05:54:11-PM] Hugh_Manatee: hell yeah [05:54:43-PM] CaptainKwok: Keep in mind that se5 will be using a similar .x file system for ships in that game too. [05:54:47-PM] MC_Fyron: It has been nearly an hour. Any more questons? [05:54:49-PM] ekolis: Even the random floating crates that you find lying in space can be customized ;) [05:54:58-PM] Hugh_Manatee: what about in game lighting effects and such ill that effect our models at all [05:55:09-PM] CaptainKwok: Sure can. [05:55:11-PM] Hugh_Manatee: *will [05:55:34-PM] CaptainKwok: Heck, you could even add blinking lights to your ship to annoy me if you wanted. [05:55:51-PM] Hugh_Manatee: how are shielsds handled? And explosions? will we get to customize that? [05:55:51-PM] MC_Fyron: Hmm... sounds good. [05:55:57-PM] Taz: :-) - spotlights in space!!! [05:56:08-PM] Hugh_Manatee: *Shields [05:56:24-PM] MC_Fyron: That depends on how much you want to custumize. Even in SE4, you can customize the display graphics. [05:57:06-PM] CaptainKwok: I think almost all effects can be modded, or new ones added. [05:57:32-PM] Hugh_Manatee: So this time around it would be possible to make an all black ship that won't tick of anyone [05:59:20-PM] Taz: Any color sheme that will NOT work? [05:59:34-PM] Taz: scheme [05:59:40-PM] MC_Fyron: That would require a lot of random testing to find somehting that doesnt work ;) [06:00:10-PM] Taz: Camoflage for ships...(h) [06:00:49-PM] MC_Fyron: You could make them look like the background or various stellar objects, but that could be annoying. You never know. [06:01:37-PM] Taz: Taz's dreams of 'random floating box' attack ships... [06:01:52-PM] MC_Fyron: hehe [06:02:17-PM] * MC_Fyron hopes Taz makes a mod of that sort of stuff when he gets SF. [06:02:35-PM] Hugh_Manatee: **** that I'm making Asteroid ships [06:02:49-PM] MC_Fyron: But those are not as comical [06:02:59-PM] CaptainKwok: ok, well I'm off... [06:03:04-PM] MC_Fyron: So do we have any final questions? [06:03:09-PM] MC_Fyron: Oh... [06:03:11-PM] CaptainKwok: ...ok final questions... [06:03:19-PM] MC_Fyron: Thank you for speaking Mr. Kwok. [06:03:38-PM] MC_Fyron: Thanks everyone for coming. [06:04:24-PM] * Taz packs up portable bar... [06:04:27-PM] MC_Fyron: It was a great session, and I hope to see you all next time. Or else SE4 Bot will do somehthing mean... [06:04:35-PM] CaptainKwok: thanks, I'll be sure to become an expert before the game is released. [06:05:06-PM] * MC_Fyron turns on the applause sign